Group 5: I had surgery yesterday so I was unable to come to class on Thursday..can you fill me in on who is the discussion leader (group 5) for this week? Also, aside from the articles we have to read and the rough draft for our autobiography is there any other homework? Any input would be much appreciated. You can also email me at jenn.braman@gmail.com if that is easier.
Group #5: I'm sorry I just found out I was the one chosen to be the discussion leader...
Q#1: From both MacLeod readings there are several points where he discusses the aspirations of both groups the Hallway Hangers and the Brothers. The Hallway Hangers and the Brothers both live in Clarendon Heights and their families have similar incomes, however their aspirations and depiction of their living situation are starkly different. MacLeod describes this aspiration difference, "...from their different appraisals of the openness of American society." Do you think their perspectives are influenced by their parents views? Maybe due to the lack of opportunities that have been made available to them? Or could it be the neighborhood peers they surround themselves with? If there are other factors what could they be?
Q#2: Thinking in terms of aspiration & attainment in a low-income neighborhood, let's say we have a child, Bobby who is born to an upper-middle class family , living in the suburbs, going to a well-known school for academic excellence and living in a wealthy neighborhood until he is 10 years old. For the sake of the story, let's say his parents are both killed in a car accident suddenly and there are no other living relatives that he can live with, he is forced to go into foster care. The family whom he is placed lives in Clarendon Heights, and their other child is a part of the Hallway Hangers. What becomes of Bobby? What if the family he went to in Clarendon Heights had a child who hung with the Brothers, would this change his destiny?
Q#3: In the Bell Hooks paper the feeling of shame is discussed when she describes how the general attitude at Stanford was easier to assume that all students have material wealth as opposed to discussing issues of class. The shame came in when she sat back and didn't speak up. Is this attitude in line with the paper we read last week, Pedagogy of the Oppressed, "the oppressed becoming the oppressor"? Just as Bell Hooks states, "We gradually assume a mindset similar to those who dominate and oppress, that we lose critical consciousness because it is not reinforced or affirmed by the environment." Should this behavior imply agreement with the general attitude at Stanford? Does this mean we become the oppressor? Is fitting in more important or would we benefit more as a country to be bolder to step out of the box and connect, as Bell Hooks suggests with our social class?
I did some further research about aspirations and I found this quote that resinated with me and I felt encompassed our research this week and I wanted to share it with you all. It came from a paper called, Determinants of Aspirations, by Leslie Morrison Gutman & Rodie Akerman (June 2008):
“The greater failure is not the child who doesn't reach the stars, but the child who has no stars that they feel they are reaching for.” Gordon Brown (2007)
In what ways does MacLeod's description of Clarendon Heights coincide and/or contradict your view/understanding of, or experience with, low income housing?
The ideology of the Brothers' (importance of school, rejection of drugs and alcohol, reproach towards violence, acceptance of the dominant culture, ect.) stands in opposition of what we associate with black males coming of age in urban America. To what do you attribute this polarity?
The American School System tends to value one from of intelligence (book smarts) above all others. What forms of intelligence are valued in Clarendon Heights? In your experience, what forms of intelligence have served you best?
bell hooks discusses the "both patronizing and very seductive" power of the "continual reinforcement of us as exceptions- as special." Have you ever had a similar experience? A time when you did or did not give into the societal pressures to showcase an inauthentic identity? Why do you image you behaved in this manner and looking back now, would you change it if you could?
MacLeod points out that reproduction theory explains that “the United States can be depicted more accurately as the place where ‘the rich get richer and the poor stay poor’ than as ‘the land of opportunity.’” A member of the Brothers, Mike, argues in his own words that the teens and young adults who are not moving up in the world are not taking school seriously and that their own investment/desire must be involved if they wish to succeed throughout and after school (achievement ideology). If all students took school seriously, regardless of their home lives, socioeconomic status, or abilities, would more people “move up” into other social classes? Or, is Mike optimistic because he was one of the ones who have been successful thus far? Did the other teens mentioned in MacLeod’s book truly have the same odds as Mike but failed to recognize them? If so, what can society do to show the teens in these situations what they can be? If not, what can society do to try to “level the playing field” without harming other students in the process?
When talking to the Hallway Hangers about the livelihood in Clarendon Heights, Shorty states “you wanna be here with your family, with your friends; they’re good people. You’re comfortable with them. You don’t feel right with these other people. I dunno....You wanna be like them, y’know? You see they’re rich; you wanna be rich. You can’t be the poor one out of the crowd.” However, he then later states “All’s I’m doing, I’m gonna get enough money, save enough money to get my mother the fuck out of here.” With this contradiction, Shorty shows his fear of leaving the familiar combined with the hope of a better life someday. With a history and upbringing like the teens in Clarendon Heights, would there ever be a higher social class that they would fit into? Thinking back to “People Like Me,” would someone like Shorty comply with the requirements to hold a higher social status? If so, do you think Shorty would be comfortable with the changes he would likely be forced to make to “fit in” with the crowd he wishes to move up into?
When one successfully moves into a new social class, whether it be through education, individual financial gain, or other methods, isolation and loss can encompass them. Hooks argues that to maintain a connection with family and friends in one’s former “lower” social class can be extremely difficult. Aided by being mindful of how one’s past has helped one to achieve their new status, a continued family connection is possible but requires thoughtfulness and great effort. We saw an example of this in “People Like Us” when a woman went home to visit her parents and she said she needed to act differently- more like the person she used to be. Why do you, personally, think these connections are so difficult to maintain? Why are parents so unwilling to accept that their child has gone on to become successful? What are their definitions of successful if they differ from society’s primary views?
Hooks discusses that people often view a successful black person or someone from low socioeconomic background as being the “exception” rather than the reality. She states that people long “for reinforcement of the belief in ‘the exception’ which enabled race, sex, and class biases to remain intact.” Why is this notion so important to society? How would viewing these successful people as the rule rather than the exception threaten those currently in social power in the United States?
Bell Hooks writes about the transition to college as a time when many students from poor and working class families experience a disconnect between their home experiences and the experiences of the privileged culture in which they have become immersed. Hooks gives examples of some students who struggle to maintain a connection with their home lives while others try to hide their pasts. In what ways did you notice this type of experience in your own undergraduate years?
In one part of “Ain’t No Makin’ It”, the Hallway Hangers talk about upper class crimes that never get punished or nonillegal actions taken by upper class people that are definitely immoral. Why do you think they don’t get upset about this topic when they discuss it? In what ways does this class-based unfair legal treatment show up in pop culture and in everyday life in 2013?
The Hallway Hangers in “Ain’t No Makin’ It” talk about the values that differentiate them for the middle and upper classes. How do the values that they discuss illuminate bell hooks’ personal account of the difficulty of maintaining the same ties with her home culture after she left for Stanford?
On page 75, Bell Hooks writes, "They [her parents] did not understand why I could not attend a college nearby, an all-black college." Why do you think she writes she "could not attend" as opposed to she "chose not to attend"? What is keeping her from attending an all-black college? Is it self-imposed or societally/culturally imposed? Have there ever been "decisions" in your life that you know are not really decisions you actually get to make? What were they and why was the outcome already decided either in your own mind, the minds of those around you or society?
Macleod: Social immobility in the land of opportunity
In this reading, Macleod writes, "...Reagan's words ring hollow. For them the American Dream, far from being a genuine prospect, is not even a dream. It is a hallucination." He goes on to describe Frankie's outlook on his life 20 years from now and Frankie states, "I don't fucking know. Twenty years. I may be fucking dead. I live a day at a time. I'll probably be in the fucking pen." If both of these thoughts are rooted in truth, what can be done to fix this problem where people in our own country feel this way? Is there a solution? What is the role of an educator in a community where people feel like this? How would you approach teaching in a school in this area?
Macleod: Teenager in Clarendon Heights
Several lines from this reading I found disturbing were when Slick said, " All through the teenage years around here, you hafta learn to survive, before you learn to do anything else." Shorty replies, "Nobody learns anything from school around here. All it is is how to survive and have money in your pocket." In an environment like this where drugs and violence and literal survival are important objectives of everyday life, is it possible to have a functioning education system? Is it worth it? Is it possible to learn history and math if you are worried that you could die later that night? How would you go about reaching kids in a situation like this?
MacLeod studies two groups of males, ranging in the same ages from a low-economic neighborhood in Clarendon Heights and finds a number of differences. School related experiences are crucial in understanding the two groups MacLeod studies from Clarendon Heights. Why are the Brothers so committed to success while the Hallway Hangers reject the idea that attending school will work for them and give them a positive result?
What factors do you think influence the two different groups attitude to school?
Which type of capital (economic, cultural, social) do you think has the most influence and power in the neighborhood of Clarendon Heights?
Bell hooks states that “ Class differences were boundaries no one wanted to face or talk about. It was easier to downplay them, to act as though we were all from privileged backgrounds, to work around them, to confront privately in the solitude of one’s room, or to pretend that just being chosen to study at such an institution meant that those of us who did not come from privilege were already in transition toward privilege.” This reminded me of Dana’s story from People Like Us about “getting above your raisin.” Have you ever been put in a situation where you have labeled as “getting above your raisin” for leaving your home and family? Did you feel the need to act differently when back at “home” and in your new place? What factors play into this theory? Why do you think society makes us feel guilty or embarrassed for having ambitious goals for ourselves?
Bell Hooks notes that, "That was important -- class was not just about money; it was about values which showed and determined behavior. While I often needed more money, I never needed a new set of beliefs and values." (p. 76)
In your opinion, what values differ between your perception of classes? What values do you possess that you think are reflective of your classed upbringing? How are these different from your friends' or relatives' values?
In "Social Immobility," MacLeod comments that "In many ways, the world of these youths is defined by the physical boundaries of the housing development" (p. 5).
In re-examining the text, in what ways do the lives and self-projected futures of the boys interviewed mirror their physical surroundings? What elements of geographical or physical boundaries do you think are the most important and significant in the classed development of today's youths? What physical boundaries impacted your own upbringing?
In the same chapter, MacLeod also introduces the concept of a "social reproduction theory." How would you define this theory? What examples of this social reproduction theory can you observe in your hometown? At BC? In Chestnut Hill?
Group 5: I had surgery yesterday so I was unable to come to class on Thursday..can you fill me in on who is the discussion leader (group 5) for this week? Also, aside from the articles we have to read and the rough draft for our autobiography is there any other homework?
ReplyDeleteAny input would be much appreciated. You can also email me at jenn.braman@gmail.com if that is easier.
Hey, I don't know if you got my e-mail, but you were up for this week cause you're second on the list. Do you think you could post some questions?
DeleteGroup #5: I'm sorry I just found out I was the one chosen to be the discussion leader...
DeleteQ#1: From both MacLeod readings there are several points where he discusses the aspirations of both groups the Hallway Hangers and the Brothers. The Hallway Hangers and the Brothers both live in Clarendon Heights and their families have similar incomes, however their aspirations and depiction of their living situation are starkly different. MacLeod describes this aspiration difference, "...from their different appraisals of the openness of American society." Do you think their perspectives are influenced by their parents views? Maybe due to the lack of opportunities that have been made available to them? Or could it be the neighborhood peers they surround themselves with? If there are other factors what could they be?
Q#2: Thinking in terms of aspiration & attainment in a low-income neighborhood, let's say we have a child, Bobby who is born to an upper-middle class family , living in the suburbs, going to a well-known school for academic excellence and living in a wealthy neighborhood until he is 10 years old. For the sake of the story, let's say his parents are both killed in a car accident suddenly and there are no other living relatives that he can live with, he is forced to go into foster care. The family whom he is placed lives in Clarendon Heights, and their other child is a part of the Hallway Hangers. What becomes of Bobby? What if the family he went to in Clarendon Heights had a child who hung with the Brothers, would this change his destiny?
Q#3: In the Bell Hooks paper the feeling of shame is discussed when she describes how the general attitude at Stanford was easier to assume that all students have material wealth as opposed to discussing issues of class. The shame came in when she sat back and didn't speak up. Is this attitude in line with the paper we read last week, Pedagogy of the Oppressed, "the oppressed becoming the oppressor"? Just as Bell Hooks states, "We gradually assume a mindset similar to those who dominate and oppress, that we lose critical consciousness because it is not reinforced or affirmed by the environment." Should this behavior imply agreement with the general attitude at Stanford? Does this mean we become the oppressor? Is fitting in more important or would we benefit more as a country to be bolder to step out of the box and connect, as Bell Hooks suggests with our social class?
I did some further research about aspirations and I found this quote that resinated with me and I felt encompassed our research this week and I wanted to share it with you all. It came from a paper called, Determinants of Aspirations, by Leslie Morrison Gutman & Rodie Akerman (June 2008):
“The greater failure is not the child who doesn't reach the stars, but the child who has
no stars that they feel they are reaching for.” Gordon Brown (2007)
(http://www.learningbenefits.net/Publications/ResReps/ResRep27.pdf)
Nice last-minute posting, Jenn.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGroup 1:
ReplyDeleteIn what ways does MacLeod's description of Clarendon Heights coincide and/or contradict your view/understanding of, or experience with, low income housing?
The ideology of the Brothers' (importance of school, rejection of drugs and alcohol, reproach towards violence, acceptance of the dominant culture, ect.) stands in opposition of what we associate with black males coming of age in urban America. To what do you attribute this polarity?
The American School System tends to value one from of intelligence (book smarts) above all others. What forms of intelligence are valued in Clarendon Heights? In your experience, what forms of intelligence have served you best?
bell hooks discusses the "both patronizing and very seductive" power of the "continual reinforcement of us as exceptions- as special." Have you ever had a similar experience? A time when you did or did not give into the societal pressures to showcase an inauthentic identity? Why do you image you behaved in this manner and looking back now, would you change it if you could?
Group 4:
ReplyDeleteMacLeod points out that reproduction theory explains that “the United States can be depicted more accurately as the place where ‘the rich get richer and the poor stay poor’ than as ‘the land of opportunity.’” A member of the Brothers, Mike, argues in his own words that the teens and young adults who are not moving up in the world are not taking school seriously and that their own investment/desire must be involved if they wish to succeed throughout and after school (achievement ideology). If all students took school seriously, regardless of their home lives, socioeconomic status, or abilities, would more people “move up” into other social classes? Or, is Mike optimistic because he was one of the ones who have been successful thus far? Did the other teens mentioned in MacLeod’s book truly have the same odds as Mike but failed to recognize them? If so, what can society do to show the teens in these situations what they can be? If not, what can society do to try to “level the playing field” without harming other students in the process?
When talking to the Hallway Hangers about the livelihood in Clarendon Heights, Shorty states “you wanna be here with your family, with your friends; they’re good people. You’re comfortable with them. You don’t feel right with these other people. I dunno....You wanna be like them, y’know? You see they’re rich; you wanna be rich. You can’t be the poor one out of the crowd.” However, he then later states “All’s I’m doing, I’m gonna get enough money, save enough money to get my mother the fuck out of here.” With this contradiction, Shorty shows his fear of leaving the familiar combined with the hope of a better life someday. With a history and upbringing like the teens in Clarendon Heights, would there ever be a higher social class that they would fit into? Thinking back to “People Like Me,” would someone like Shorty comply with the requirements to hold a higher social status? If so, do you think Shorty would be comfortable with the changes he would likely be forced to make to “fit in” with the crowd he wishes to move up into?
When one successfully moves into a new social class, whether it be through education, individual financial gain, or other methods, isolation and loss can encompass them. Hooks argues that to maintain a connection with family and friends in one’s former “lower” social class can be extremely difficult. Aided by being mindful of how one’s past has helped one to achieve their new status, a continued family connection is possible but requires thoughtfulness and great effort. We saw an example of this in “People Like Us” when a woman went home to visit her parents and she said she needed to act differently- more like the person she used to be. Why do you, personally, think these connections are so difficult to maintain? Why are parents so unwilling to accept that their child has gone on to become successful? What are their definitions of successful if they differ from society’s primary views?
Hooks discusses that people often view a successful black person or someone from low socioeconomic background as being the “exception” rather than the reality. She states that people long “for reinforcement of the belief in ‘the exception’ which enabled race, sex, and class biases to remain intact.” Why is this notion so important to society? How would viewing these successful people as the rule rather than the exception threaten those currently in social power in the United States?
Bell Hooks writes about the transition to college as a time when many students from poor and working class families experience a disconnect between their home experiences and the experiences of the privileged culture in which they have become immersed. Hooks gives examples of some students who struggle to maintain a connection with their home lives while others try to hide their pasts. In what ways did you notice this type of experience in your own undergraduate years?
ReplyDeleteIn one part of “Ain’t No Makin’ It”, the Hallway Hangers talk about upper class crimes that never get punished or nonillegal actions taken by upper class people that are definitely immoral. Why do you think they don’t get upset about this topic when they discuss it? In what ways does this class-based unfair legal treatment show up in pop culture and in everyday life in 2013?
The Hallway Hangers in “Ain’t No Makin’ It” talk about the values that differentiate them for the middle and upper classes. How do the values that they discuss illuminate bell hooks’ personal account of the difficulty of maintaining the same ties with her home culture after she left for Stanford?
Group 6 (Tim Broderick)
ReplyDeleteHooks:
On page 75, Bell Hooks writes, "They [her parents] did not understand why I could not attend a college nearby, an all-black college." Why do you think she writes she "could not attend" as opposed to she "chose not to attend"? What is keeping her from attending an all-black college? Is it self-imposed or societally/culturally imposed? Have there ever been "decisions" in your life that you know are not really decisions you actually get to make? What were they and why was the outcome already decided either in your own mind, the minds of those around you or society?
Macleod: Social immobility in the land of opportunity
In this reading, Macleod writes, "...Reagan's words ring hollow. For them the American Dream, far from being a genuine prospect, is not even a dream. It is a hallucination." He goes on to describe Frankie's outlook on his life 20 years from now and Frankie states, "I don't fucking know. Twenty years. I may be fucking dead. I live a day at a time. I'll probably be in the fucking pen." If both of these thoughts are rooted in truth, what can be done to fix this problem where people in our own country feel this way? Is there a solution? What is the role of an educator in a community where people feel like this? How would you approach teaching in a school in this area?
Macleod: Teenager in Clarendon Heights
Several lines from this reading I found disturbing were when Slick said, " All through the teenage years around here, you hafta learn to survive, before you learn to do anything else." Shorty replies, "Nobody learns anything from school around here. All it is is how to survive and have money in your pocket." In an environment like this where drugs and violence and literal survival are important objectives of everyday life, is it possible to have a functioning education system? Is it worth it? Is it possible to learn history and math if you are worried that you could die later that night? How would you go about reaching kids in a situation like this?
Group 7 - Laura Ducie
ReplyDeleteMacLeod studies two groups of males, ranging in the same ages from a low-economic neighborhood in Clarendon Heights and finds a number of differences. School related experiences are crucial in understanding the two groups MacLeod studies from Clarendon Heights. Why are the Brothers so committed to success while the Hallway Hangers reject the idea that attending school will work for them and give them a positive result?
What factors do you think influence the two different groups attitude to school?
Which type of capital (economic, cultural, social) do you think has the most influence and power in the neighborhood of Clarendon Heights?
Bell hooks states that “ Class differences were boundaries no one wanted to face or talk about. It was easier to downplay them, to act as though we were all from privileged backgrounds, to work around them, to confront privately in the solitude of one’s room, or to pretend that just being chosen to study at such an institution meant that those of us who did not come from privilege were already in transition toward privilege.” This reminded me of Dana’s story from People Like Us about “getting above your raisin.” Have you ever been put in a situation where you have labeled as “getting above your raisin” for leaving your home and family? Did you feel the need to act differently when back at “home” and in your new place? What factors play into this theory? Why do you think society makes us feel guilty or embarrassed for having ambitious goals for ourselves?
Group 2 - Maggie NIxon
ReplyDeleteBell Hooks notes that, "That was important -- class was not just about money; it was about values which showed and determined behavior. While I often needed more money, I never needed a new set of beliefs and values." (p. 76)
In your opinion, what values differ between your perception of classes? What values do you possess that you think are reflective of your classed upbringing? How are these different from your friends' or relatives' values?
In "Social Immobility," MacLeod comments that "In many ways, the world of these youths is defined by the physical boundaries of the housing development" (p. 5).
In re-examining the text, in what ways do the lives and self-projected futures of the boys interviewed mirror their physical surroundings? What elements of geographical or physical boundaries do you think are the most important and significant in the classed development of today's youths? What physical boundaries impacted your own upbringing?
In the same chapter, MacLeod also introduces the concept of a "social reproduction theory." How would you define this theory? What examples of this social reproduction theory can you observe in your hometown? At BC? In Chestnut Hill?